Terry’s letter to the editor

[Dave Ross]

#16948

Just ask Malcolm. Maybe the document with the mark-ups should be on the website as well? If it's not correct someone could then point this out so that it could be corrected. For a National club with a good data base, two websites and an email list, we could have a lot more info out in the open. No need to go tiki touring outside the Annual Rally, the AGM the Rag Rally and all the other events :-). Of course if someone wants to go on a ride anyway, that's not a problem. Riding is what it's about. On the other hand, during the last ten years, a lot of luddites have moved to the dark side. So all this internetness is a fairly recent development for the BMWOR

[peter.trub]

#16949

If members from areas other than Auckland wish to compare what is now with what is proposed, I suggest you compare the published remits with the existing Constitution and Rules of BMWOR of NZ (Inc). Don't have a copy of them, do I hear? They have been on our website for quite a while, linked from here: http://bmwor.org.nz/Publish.html

Cheers for that Bwucie  ;D At last some useful information. I was a bit concerned that this thread had already turned into just another drive by shooting where bullets are fired then the culprit speeds off out of sight  😮Whether the email Auckland members have recieved is factual or not, is no concern to me. Therefore I have no interest in recieving or seeing it. If it is factual then its not a problem. If it is based on assumption, conjecture and opinion, then I would suggest the sender give thought as to the value of such email to the BMWOR as a whole. What I would seek from you is (now that I have bothered to read the constitution and the action plan  8), would it be possible to put a link or to steer me towards the published remits? This way myself and any other interested BMWOR members could make informed comment on these remits. CheersColin

[Dave Ross]

#16950

Cheers for that Bwucie  ;D At last some useful information. I was a bit concerned that this thread had already turned into just another drive by shooting where bullets are fired then the culprit speeds off out of sight  😮CheersColin

I am not sure what you're on about Colin. If you were referring to me, I have to say that I would be offended. I know some members of the executive occasionally sneak around here and have read his thread. Are you their spokesperson? If you like the feedback it's positive affirmation, if not,  it's called a "drive by shooting"? Just want to get my terminology straight.  ;D

[peter.trub]

#16951

Fair call Koko, if you are not sure of something then ask.What do I mean by drive by shooting?I use this terminology to describe what I have seen happen all to often on Internet forums (not just this one). A person starts or enters a thread. They let forth a verbal spray about something or someone and then because they either are unwillling or unable to explain themselves in a constructive manner, they have effectively have ducked for cover, thus my terminology "drive by shooting". In fairness to Terry he has not had or taken the oppurtunity to explain his thoughts he put into his letter, however should he fail too, then yes I will consider his letter to be a "drive by shooting"I had begun to fear you had done the same with this topic you started on the forum, to date I have sought clarification and recieved scant littleSo I will now ask you directly for some clarifications as to your intent with the following quotes;A)I am not happy about the number of complexities that have been introduced to the RegisterI believe I have already sought an answer on this but I will now ask you directly. What are these complexities you refer too?B)Now we're slaves to a systemIt sounds a bit dramatic so I would like it clarified, for the record I personally choose to be no mans slave.C)On the other hand, during the last ten years, a lot of luddites have moved to the dark side. So all this internetness is a fairly recent development for the BMWORWhere is the dark side and who are the luddites? Internetness?D)No need to go tiki touring outside the Annual Rally, the AGM the Rag Rally and all the other events?Who, where and why?E)I know some members of the executive occasionally sneak around here and have read his thread?Sneak? Is this not an open forum? Or should we all rely on chinese wispers? (apologies to members of that particular ethnicity, no offense intended)I will also take this oppurtunity to answer your question "Are you their spokesperson?"No I am not. Who is this "they" you speak of? I wasnt aware that the BMWOR was an us and them organization. If there is a they, they aren't me  8) As I stated in my first post, if there needs to be debate then so be it. But at least lets be upfront about what we mean  ;DCheersColin

[Anonymous]

#16952

The remits must have been published in the July Newsletter, because that's the one I can't find. (Culled my paper stack that sits on my desk – off the desk and into File 13 for disposal – oops.) Garry hasn't given me the link to that edition yet to post on the website: I'll send him an email shortly asking for that.With respect to the document Malcolm sent, I don't wish to imply it's inaccurate, or a stitch up, or part of a conspiracy, or anything like that, I just like to know the provenance of stuff. If somebody else wants to do a cut and paste, that's fine by me. I've already used the version available to me to do the comparison before now - helped by the fact I knew I could access the Constitution via the website, 'cos I have some acquaintance with the fella that put it there.Alex is right, we could have more stuff out in the open (out in the wild), and I have a couple more links I have to add to the site. I have been a bit slack lately, having been incredibly busy at work and hence knackered at home. I normally react in a reasonably timely fashion when folk ask me to make edits or fix/tweak/explain stuff for them. So far this year I have stuck the Constitution and Rules, the Handbook, and the Executive Action Plan on the site, in the wild. (Executive Action Plan - a.k.a. BHAG: Big Hairy Audacious Goals. That oughta provoke some more comments - YoungJim must be luvving this.)I am the servant of the Register - what you guys, my masters, the Register, ask of me for the website and forum I endeavour to do - but I don't own, or write the "stuff" that's on the site. So if you have more you want revealed, talk to the blokes that hold the Executive positions.

[Dave Ross]

#16953

Fair call Koko, if you are not sure of something then ask.What do I mean by drive by shooting?I use this terminology to describe what I have seen happen all to often on Internet forums (not just this one). A person starts or enters a thread. They let forth a verbal spray about something or someone and then because they either are unwillling or unable to explain themselves in a constructive manner, they have effectively have ducked for cover, thus my terminology "drive by shooting". In fairness to Terry he has not had or taken the oppurtunity to explain his thoughts he put into his letter, however should he fail too, then yes I will consider his letter to be a "drive by shooting"I had begun to fear you had done the same with this topic you started on the forum, to date I have sought clarification and recieved scant littleSo I will now ask you directly for some clarifications as to your intent with the following quotes;Fair enough, I'll give it a shotA)I am not happy about the number of complexities that have been introduced to the RegisterI believe I have already sought an answer on this but I will now ask you directly. What are these complexities you refer too?While the is a need to have some information written down, like the constitution for example, trying to pin everything else down is probably overkill. The Register runs a few events, don't think that has changed much during the last few years and the have managed without a major action plan. We need a list of tasks that have to be done ,when the should be done and who usually does it. Pinning is down much more is probably more of a burden, as Terry pointed out. It may stop some people from taking on positions, because they feel the position is beyond them and they may worry about tripping over an action plan or missing out some disclaimer during a lunch rideB)Now we're slaves to a systemIt sounds a bit dramatic so I would like it clarified, for the record I personally choose to be no mans slave.Maybe not literally, hope your mortgage is paid up. The system is not a man, the "system" is a set of rules that may or may not be helpful. The rules set boundaries, boundaries limit motion, too many of those, and you are probably in jailC)On the other hand, during the last ten years, a lot of luddites have moved to the dark side. So all this internetness is a fairly recent development for the BMWORWhere is the dark side and who are the luddites? Internetness?D)No need to go tiki touring outside the Annual Rally, the AGM the Rag Rally and all the other events?Who, where and why?I am was alluding to Terry's comment in the newsletter, I think he was referring to Mr. Tibbs and Mr. Thomson. I do think it's great hat they are going around the regions meeting people and "chewing the fat with those interested in out future". Clearly not the bunch of people who turn up to the Auckland meetings.E)I know some members of the executive occasionally sneak around here and have read his thread?Sneak? Is this not an open forum? Or should we all rely on chinese wispers? (apologies to members of that particular ethnicity, no offense intended)I could be wrong of course, but tibsy has been a member since 2007 with 6 posts and was here last at 3.49pm. The forum allows a two way conversations, more or less. So it would be a good place to "chew the fat". So when someone quietly comes and goes, it's called sneaking, but hey others call it lurkingI will also take this oppurtunity to answer your question "Are you their spokesperson?"No I am not. Who is this "they" you speak of? I wasnt aware that the BMWOR was an us and them organization. If there is a they, they aren't me  8) How can you know if your are not when you don't no who "they" are.As I stated in my first post, if there needs to be debate then so be it. But at least lets be upfront about what we mean  ;DBy "we", do you mean yourself or me? As stated at the beginning, I have given some feedback, as in "I like this or I don't like this".  I do agree with Terry, that some of these changes are coming a bit fast, and you have to ask yourself, why the urgency. Now, I don't expect any action, since I can't be bothered to ride to Te Aroha to "chew the fat", when I should be working. However, I can read the forum every now and then, and provide some entertainment occasionally. Since I still haven't paid my subs, I'll stop here, because I am sure there is a clause somewhere in there, that says that I don't have a say at this time. By the way, thanks for the explanation for the term "drive by shooting", who would have thought? CheersColin

Just want to point to the italics  <- those, my reply above is in italics.*Edit* We need some motorcycle content in here, before some people thinks it's a bored meeting.

[peter.trub]

#16954

The remits must have been published in the July Newsletter, because that's the one I can't find. (Culled my paper stack that sits on my desk - off the desk and into File 13 for disposal - oops.) Garry hasn't given me the link to that edition yet to post on the website: I'll send him an email shortly asking for that.

Thankyou for that Bwucie  8) I will patiently wait for you to post the link, then I will read and study the remits. Once I have done that I will decide if all this keffuffle has been worthwhile

[Jim Young]

#16955

Nice pics Alex  ::)

[peter.trub]

#16956

Stand down Bwucie  ;D I found my own copy of the July News Letter  8) (Although you may want to still post a link so that others can also make informed choice).Firstly, I offer an apology from myself to all BMWOR members. I should have taken more time and interest and read the remits, proposed changes etc when they were placed in front of me. In truth I skimmed over them as the politics of any orginization (not just BMWOR) are something I side step at often as possible.As a rsult of this forum topic I have now read and studied the Constitution, the Action Plan and the proposed remits. I have reached a point where I feel I must ask, What is all the kerfuffle about?  😮 I mean honestly, I have not seen anything that would influence me one way or another to not renew my membership to the BMWOR.A lot of it seems to make bloody good sense to me. My personal view is I would prefer the AGM and Annual Rally be kept seperate. My reason for this is I dont like meetings and believe they may intrude on my enjoyment at a Rally.The other side of that coin is, 70 members max turning up for AGM is a poor turnout. On top of that I have only got off my bum to attend one Rally and zero AGM's so to say it will affect me is being a bit precious. So whatever is decided at the AGM on that matter I will go along with.  ;DAs far as the other remits go, well we live in a democratic country that embraces the right of free speech. I cant see an issue with the remits or the action plan. In fact I LIKE them. (I highlighted like because apparently saying you like or dislike something is a very good debate  ;)).I noticed this thread has been viewed in excess of 200 times. Yet this is not the 200th post. Must be a lot of sneaky people looking at it  8) I hope that those who have looked will as I have, sit back, take a pause, look at the facts, then make an informed choice or comment. For those who feel strongly for or against the remits I would suggest you attend the AGM and participate in the descion making process.I wont be at the AGM sorry, as I have pointed out I find meetings are not something I generally enjoy. Regardless of what happens and is decided at the AGM I continue to be a member of BMWOR. Most of all I will continue to ride bikes. At the end of the day that, after all is what its all about.CheersColin

[Anonymous]

#16957

Although you may want to still post a link so that others can also make informed choice

I will do, but I'm still waiting for Garry (they are in his Acrobat account.) Like the rest of us, he's gotta make a crust and also survive peacefully within his household, so when the time is good for Gazza it'll be good for me: we are all volunteers.With regard to lurkers, Alex uses his web savvy to interpret what is in plain view for all of us that use the Forum: who is online, and (via their profile) when they were last online (plus their IP address etc etc.) I know (because Norbert Eichblatt, the archetypical Hamburger told me) that the German sense of humour is not to be laughed at! But at the same time I'm pretty well convinced Mr Kokopelli often has his tongue firmly in his cheek. Of course we have Executive Members that lurk: those of us that use the Forum provide them with a very convenient source of vox populus, although possible the vox of the lunatic fringe of the populus! We also have a helluva lot of ordinary Forum members that prefer to lurk while the rest of us act like dicks: we don't denigrate them for lurking, eh?If I was an Executive Member, I would only lurk, but I'd lurk often, and take note of the tenor of the threads, and consider it as another form of feedback from the membership. But I sure as heck would not stick my head above the sandbags. You put your jungle hat up on the end of a stick and it'll get a burst of 7.62 short from a Kalashnikov real quick. And I'm sure Alex would reckon the same, but he probably can't speak clearly, 'cos his tongue's in his cheek...........

[Anonymous]

#16958

Alex, have you replaced the wounded rocker cover? I was looking for the bogged bit and couldn't see it in the photos. Or is that in fact the other bike? Or somebody else's?Hell, I don't know, all chook chasers look the same to me: I even have to memorise my own rego number well, because the only colour VStrom Suzuki can sell is orange - I wouldn't know which one is mine. (Except nobody else is so crass as to label theirs "Duckly Ugling".

[Dave Ross]

#16959

Alex, have you replaced the wounded rocker cover? I was looking for the bogged bit and couldn't see it in the photos. Or is that in fact the other bike? Or somebody else's?

Yep, I've bought two off Siebenrock. Unfortunately, the one I've fitted it leaks. I need to sand the contact areas flat. Hopefully I haven't already ruined the gasket. I am getting pretty good at stuffing up valve covers. Currently I am commuting on the R80, which is not much fun with howling off-road tires. The 1150 has a worn-out drive shaft, I think it may be just out of warranty.

[Anonymous]

#16960

I have been reading all the posts relating to our area representives views on the proposed changes to our register. I can easily understand the member from Taranaki's questioning about what all the fuss is about and I put some of this down to a lack of understanding of the history of the register. I have been (an active) member of the register since 1982 and like the members who set it up in the first place, I am for it remaining under the simple governance structure it has operated on for the last thrty seven? years. I like the idea of having a meeting (not neccesarily every month though) that members can attend and voice an opinion, question proposals, make suggestions etc though in practice most members are not bothered about this or can not attend because of the geography of where we live, but the opportunity exists. Members can also participate by asking for their concerns/questions to be tabled at a meeting. Also, by holding a regular governance meeting all business of the register is communicated to every member via the minutes of the meeting, if there is no regular meeting and therefore no minuting of items then how does the general membership keep up with current information or proposals?  By removing the structure of running the register by a 'committee' type structure this opportunity for input by members is removed. My question would be to those that feel the need to change is this; in what way specifically has the current structure of governance pervented the introduction or implementation of an idea or proposal from taking place? and how will the introduction of a new governance system benefit the membership as a whole? If changes are proposed then surely it's not too much to expect that valid reasons are given for why they need to be implemented, it does not matter who is proposing the changes, the process for this remains the same.

[peter.trub]

#16961

It is good to see some structured and reasoned debate enter. The questions you ask as to how the new governance system will benifit the membership as a whole are valid and fair question's. I have my beliefs as to how they will, however in this instance I will give others the oppurtunity to express their opinions, rather than flooding the forum with mine.

I have been reading all the posts relating to our area representives views on the proposed changes to our register. I can easily understand the member from Taranaki's questioning about what all the fuss is about and I put some of this down to a lack of understanding of the history of the register.

For clarification of a few small points I would like to point out that you are correct, my knowledge of the history of the register is not 100%. However I feel as the debate, concerns a living document (the constitution) and structure (guidelines etc) upon which an organisation that I belong to, currently has remit before it seeking to alter these. I am of the belief that regardless of the history of the BMWOR I have a right to input into its future. Or should this matter be left entirely to those who formed the register? When they are all dead, who will make the decsions then?I would also like to take the opportunity to point out that the opinions I have expressed in these post are entirely my own. I do not speak on behalf of any group or area. I would not deem it appropiate to speak on behalf of my Area unless asked to do so by them, as well as recieving clear direction from them as to the message to be conveyed. You state your these posts relate to your Area Rep's view's. Are they they his personal views or the views of his area?With reference to the committee structure, the current (constitutiontely required) Quorum for these monthly meetings is 15 members. This therefore means the President and elected officers of BMWOR need to all be elected from the same Area (otherwise once a month they will all have to travel to the meeting). Further to this that area must have at least 15 members who will attend the committee meetings every month (to achieve a quorum). This effectivly excludes most of our area's from being able to have any effective input into the BMWOR under its present structure. I could be a conspiracy theorist and suggest that this could indeed be the main reason for the current discontent about the proposed changes?If as an organisation BMWOR is so not in need of change, that it has caused so much angst and kerfuffle, why currently are we having a meeting every month?  😮

[Anonymous]

#16962

Stand down Bwucie  ;D I found my own copy of the July News Letter  8) (Although you may want to still post a link so that others can also make informed choice)./Giant snip here!/CheersColin

Got the link from Garry, Newsletter posted here: http://bmwor.org.nz/News.htmlI'll get the August one up soon, I'm sure: Gazza sent me the wrong link for that one. 🙁

[Author]

Posts