Summer road conditions.

[Dave Ross]

#11405

Who do we send our questions to then.There must be a New Zealand standard which contractors have to follow, as well the contractors would have to provide a producer statement saying all there works complies with the relevant NZ Standards. We have to in the building trade.

That didn't prevent the leaky buildings, though. Contractors will do what they can get away with. There appears to be little or no quality control by the council.

[Anonymous]

#11406

Who do we send our questions to then.There must be a New Zealand standard which contractors have to follow, as well the contractors would have to provide a producer statement saying all there works complies with the relevant NZ Standards. We have to in the building trade.

That didn't prevent the leaky buildings, though. Contractors will do what they can get away with. There appears to be little or no quality control by the council.

Producer statements came in after the leaky homes problems. The problem with leaky homes was bad workmanship and poor inspections. Not the New Zealand standards.A lot of the bad inspections were not council inspectors, but private inspectors as well poor materials.All man made building materials seem to all fail in a short period of time. Less than 10 years. Exterior materials should be designed to last at least 15 years and a house should last 50 years.Alex like you said poor quality control seems to be the problem with the tar as well poor controls by council and the national roads board. 

[Anonymous]

#11407

Now that's refreshing…. Alex and Dean agreeing.Guess I'll have to take the other side. Apparently as soon as Branz approved dry frame and combined it with Hardie products, builders dropped their workmaship standards, inspectors suddenly became lax, and others have mentioned architects and developers. I'm not a rocket scientist but it seems to me the problem was the dry frame and the cladding. The same product had failed industry wide in Canada and the government stepped in and picked up the tab a few years back. And yet Branz went and set it upon us here. For over two years Prendos on behalf of the building industry had been lobbying government and had regular stories in the NZ Herald about the ticking time bomb of failures. When it all finally hit the head of Branz was asked why he didn't respond sooner and he commented that he thought it would go away.The government after stuffing up then quickly close Branz and say don't look to us. The governemnt should have taken full responsibility and then sued James Hardie and the timber industry, although they did approve it.Right now, builders, developers, draughtsman, architects etc are getting hammered for designing and building to a government approved spec.Whats more is the building industry proactively lobbied government on the problem and they did nothing. I also know many builders when they became aware of the problem made changes to deal with it. Switching to tanalised timber etc before the government required it.Families are having to go down the legal road and fight, with little money, staying in unhealthy homes and waiting for a fix while the houses rot and fall down around their ears. This is a shabby outcome from government. I know a draughtsman trading as a sole trader and in one claim alone was pinged for $25,000. He'll get bankrupted after losing everything, come out of bankruptcy and get done again by the continuing claims. This is destroying peoples lives and the government is the central and primary party at fault. They were grossly negligent to approve a system that had failed overseas, grossly negligent to not take any action for over two years of public lobbying let alone how much went on before that.I can't comprehend the building industry suddenly went bad as soon as these products were introduced.On top of that Auckland City Council is seeking to reach out of court settlements to keep a lid on what they're paying out but it's millions and millions of dollars per year. With every settlement as the smaller parties fold and go broke the council is left holding the baby.Dean most ACC inspectors are staff. Private inspectors were as tough if not tougher than ACC inspectors. It was their perdonal shirt on the line.Yep, that's about what I think."contractors will do what they can get away with"... phifff. Please! This would imply an aluminium joiner would produce product below standard and mislabel if they can get away with it.___________________Now back to topic. The tar melting is unacceptable. Sure we all ride to the conditions but like you say OZ can do it. Not only that but you can ride along old road with no signs of melt and hit the new bit and it's very wet. Someone does need to lobby someone about it. It is dangerous for us riders.So who do we call?

[Anonymous]

#11408

The problem with leaky homes was the New Zealand Standards and Branz. Although the media does like to play up the shonky builder developer blah, blah, blah story. They're easier targets. On the whole the media has done a pretty crappy job of investigating this properly and allowed Labour to just dump the pain and misery on others.Fair's, fair. Let's put the blame where it belongs with the now hastily closed down Branz. I've never seen a government run for cover so fast.___________________________Now guys, did I take the other side well. That was too much work. Can you two please stay on opposite sides of the debate it would make life much easier for me....lol.

[Dave Ross]

#11409

Obviously the leaking building problem was the result of more than one cause. Ultimately though, the method of construction was just plain wrong. I remember looking at buildings in 1988, thinking that this won't work. Monolithic cladding on timber frame without ventilation cavities, you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see that. All the brick and tile houses had that feature, ventilation and drainage, as far as I could tell. The problem was compounded by people feeling the need to recreate that European feel, by building Mediterranean  inspired houses, without eves and near internal guttering. Of course the lack of eves were/are often the result of boundary/ building envelope requirements. Couple this with a building boom and a shortage of trained staff and suddenly every body is a builder. Yes, there were lots of shonky building practices. I've seen timber pergolas that were attached to the framing and then had the cladding attached around them. Handrails were screwed through the cladding into the framing. I've seen lots of horizontal surfaces, where the water just pools. Internal gutters in inaccessible places, that would eventually overflow etc. Some of those are design faults, others were done by people who just didn't know any better. I guess some were just in a hurry, so they could move on, or people could move in before Christmas.As to the Aluminium Joinery, I don't think people would go a s far as mislabeling, that would be fraud and that's a different thing altogether. But I bet Dean would agree, that not all joinery is created equal and if the internal quality control is poor, that's what goes out the door and into the building.Using treated timber doesn't cure the problem, it hides the symptoms. Plus the stuff is not very healthy either. Parts of my grandmother's house were over 300 years old before they pulled the house down. Not because it was about to fall, but because you couldn't really walk inside without your head scraping the ceilings, people were a lot shorter then. Anyway, if you want to see how proper houses are build, you'll need to look in the parts of Europe where they get a bit of snow. 😀_______________________________________________Sorry, I forgot to add a line and change the topic back to melting roads.

[David]

#11410

Bitumen is a product derived from distillation of crude oil , the most familiar daily use being for road surfaces or roofing.Bitumen is made from part of the residue left over after gas oil has been drawn off from the bottom of a distillation column. This residue is subject to further processes to produce different grades of bitumen. The qualities will vary according to the type of crude oil distilled. Refineries producing bitumen use crude oil from Mexico, South America or the Middle East .Bitumen has a complex chemical composition, consisting mainly of hydrocarbons, with a high carbon content of between 80% and 90%. At normal ambient temperatures it is solid to semi-solid but becomes progressively more liquid at high temperatures. Bitumen is made in a number of grades according to the use to which it will be put. These grades are rated according to a "penetration test", utilising a needle under a specified load which measures the extent to which the needle sinks into a test sample. Bitumen can be modified or given specific qualities by further processes. These include blowing air through the bitumen mix to give it higher viscosity and greater resistance to softening (particularly for road applications), and secondary processes involving additives or emulsifying with water.

My solution is to shift parliament to Marsden Point so the politicians can be put to good use by blowing hot air through the bitumen distillate, improving the roads for us  😆Note that hotmix doesnt melt but it is only used on high load roads while we tend to try and find somewhere there is little traffic  😉

[Anonymous]

#11411

Alex, I agree on the cavity issue and yes treated timber does mask it. If you pull this type of cladding of a 70's home the timber is also wet and in trouble. The cladding does need an air gap for many reasons. You can't rely on paint as a water proof membrane. The thermal properties of the fibre cement board means condensation forms on the inside. If you rip walls off villa's you often see water marks down the inside of the wall but the things had so many air gaps they breathed and dried out. Modern houses don't breath easily. Having batts or any insulation that doesn't allow moisture to escape easily compounds the problem.Yes it is great to see changes but hardie'sproducts including their boards should be banned. As should timber framed inter-tenancy walls on multi unit terraced house development. 4x2 framing btween units with gib noiseline for sound proofing is ridiculous. Building the top floor of a building in timber in the same way should be banned. there are many 3-5 storey apartment buildings around with the top floor or two built in timber. it was a cost saving measure but how do you repair them. The life of the building should eb comparable from the base up.I see flat roofs are also failing because the paint on membrane that was meant to have a 50 year life is failing within 10 years. Every butynol deck or roof I've had has leaked within 10 years. ____________________________While we're on building, I'm also unimpressed that in areas with villas they allow them to be pulled down and a monolithic house built. It won't be long and the character of the area would be lost for ever. In some of these areas I don't care what is out back or inside but from the street you should only see "villa". I'd love to see tougher restrictions in maintain the street appeal and even forcing the newer homes to be reclad more appropriately iof the owner ever chooses to reclad. I'd like to think that in 50 or 100 years when these houses are pulled down that villa's go back up. I'd like to see a restriction that if you want a buidlding consent then you have to deal to the front of the house.As a city here in Aucks we're losing a lot of our character and someone ahs to stop it.

[honeybear.2399]

#11412

Who do we send our questions to then.There must be a New Zealand standard which contractors have to follow, as well the contractors would have to provide a producer statement saying all there works complies with the relevant NZ Standards. We have to in the building trade.

try this linkhttp://www.transit.govt.nz/technical/specifications.jsp

[Dave Ross]

#11413

Des, I agree with almost everything you've written. It's not all that hard to build a house properly, but it will be a bit more expensive. When money is involved people try to cut corners. The trouble is that the average person hasn't got a clue what sort of house they will be getting. If they've picked the wrong builder they might be out of luck. Expensive doesn't necessarily equal quality. You make good points about using substandard methods on areas that can no longer be accessed later on. Stuff that can't easily be changed should be of a good quality. As far as the housing heritage goes, I am not quite so sure. While I do like the older buildings, I also like a bit of diversity. The problem here is that the buildings that replace the old ones are often a lot worse than what they replace. They sometimes look ok, but that doesn't last, as the materials used don't age well. Sometimes they are just plain rubbish to start with. However, a well designed modern building built with quality materials can hold its own against the old stuff. Where do you draw the line? I  don't know.

[Anonymous]

#11414

If you look at the back of a “tar” tanker, at the hazardous goods info, the name of the product is “cut-back bitumen”. One story I hear from the conspiracy theorists I know that are involved in the roading game (as very small players, putting the hoist up and running out the metal) is that the bitumen is cut with too much solvent. The common story is along the lines of, “They put too much kero in the bitumen nowadays.” (Notice “they” getting in the act again?).But bitumen is a variable product, and the summer problem does appear to have grown worse since the last major update at Marsden point. Perhaps some of the more volatile products that thinned the bitumen are now incorporated in fuel products, and what is now mixed in does not totally evaporate?As for the penetration test, the state of the roads certainly gives me the needle!We should definitely lobby for Dick's suggested move of Parliament; the way the debating chamber is at the moment they would have leftover hot air to pipe into Whangarei as an industrial heat source even after aerating the bitumen.

[Anonymous]

#11415

Howdo,The whanau and I headed for Waipu with the body surfing gear in our pack, sideboxes, whatever means of carrying available, but it was K-wrap, and not worth getting wet for. So I took the others to the visitor centre at Marsden Point, which is fascinating, if you ain't been there before (and none of them had).Personally I got upset by the poster in the photo: look at the vehicle they have used as the focal point, for all the trouble their product is causing us.The upgrades at the refinery HAVE altered the constituents of Bitumen, because they use just about all the crude in the refining process now, with vanishing little waste: the flare stack is only used for safely relieving high pressures nowadays, where once it burned 24/7.How much bearing, if any, this has on the state of the roads, I have not the smallest idea. If work ever eases off a bit, and I can find some energy and my Round Tuit, I will try and do some meaningful research on the subject. In the meantime, if somebody wants to gazump me and find the facts, the whole facts, and nothing but the facts, please keep us all informed.

[peter.trub]

#11416

http://continuingeducation.construction.com/article.php?L=51&C=201&P=5Ah when will we learn to use the knowledge others have collected for us. Incorrectly installed Tyvek, New Zealands next housing time bomb, (coming to a house near you soon) Perhaps we could use the cheap melting tar from the roads to water proof our houses.

[Anonymous]

#11417

There is a house down White Swan Road that a guy built when he returned from the war. With little funds and even less resources he made the roof with tar and sacking. The roof is still there today and doesn't leak. The guy who owns the property reckons the roof will be there long after the house is gone.Now knowing that this works real well, I wonder, what would be the chances of making your own roof now 🙂

[Anonymous]

#11418

There is a house down White Swan Road that a guy built when he returned from the war. With little funds and even less resources he made the roof with tar and sacking. The roof is still there today and doesn't leak. The guy who owns the property reckons the roof will be there long after the house is gone.Now knowing that this works real well, I wonder, what would be the chances of making your own roof now 🙂

Desamo simple the building trade is stuffed and little can be done with the idots that control the industry.If we go back to the 70's and 80's up to 1987 with how light weight timber building should built (NZS 3604) things would be a lot better including the materials used.I would not buy any house built after 1988 onwards. I would have to build it myself now as per all my houses I have built and lived in over the years. The last house I built in 1987 I still live in and it's still like new. 😀May be they may put us "clark of works" back on the job 😮   

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