Intermittent ignition – R850R 1999

[Grant Freeman]

#11518

Hi Guys,Well, unfortunately for me, the saga is ongoing  🙁 I have used the bike for 160Kms after the road side rescue and subsequent fuel filter change, and in leaving work on Saturday to go home, I had gone about 0.3Kms and the bike cut out - bugger! I started it again and it cut out again, I talked to the bike in an encouraging way, started it again and it went OK - I rode home, some 32 Kms.Next day, went to have a look to see if there is anything obvious, lifted the tank up to see all the connections were made and all looked OK, so tried to start it and the damned fuel pump does not run now  😕 Everything else seems to be OK so now is the problem a faulty fuel pump or a faullty fuel pump relay? Which of the relays under the seat is the one for the fuel pump? There is nothing in the manual to say which one is which. I checked the fuse of course and that was fine, but now I am totally stumped.One of the links posted Bogser (thanks mate) talks about one guy having a faulty fuel pump, so I am hoping it is that, as replacing the engine management system would be $$$ for sure. Not that a replacment fuel pump will be cheap I am sure!!Maybe this is the start of my return to trusty old airheads!I will keep you posted on progress.Cheers,Mike  

[Ron McFadzien]

#11519

Mikea couple of questions is the bike a Jap Import? And if you now have the bike in the shed on the main stand is the side stand up? The fuel pump will not run if it is down the same as using the kill switch or trying to start it in gear without pulling the clutch in.  Another one of those known problems is the side stand micro switch. I'm still picking hall sensor failure or faulty wiring. ( insulation falls of the wires because of the heat and then short together )If you have some mechanical / electrical knowledge look at the link I posted earlier it shows you how to check the hall sensors with a LED you can remove the tank unplug the connector and set it up as per diagram and rotate the crank ( behind the front cover with the bottom pulley bolt. clockwise only ) to make sure that the hall sensor operates when the gap in the can passes through it. There are 2 sensors both need checking. Regards boGSer  

[honeybear.2399]

#11520

Hi Guys,Well, unfortunately for me, the saga is ongoing  🙁 I have used the bike for 160Kms after the road side rescue and subsequent fuel filter change, and in leaving work on Saturday to go home, I had gone about 0.3Kms and the bike cut out - bugger! I started it again and it cut out again, I talked to the bike in an encouraging way, started it again and it went OK - I rode home, some 32 Kms.Next day, went to have a look to see if there is anything obvious, lifted the tank up to see all the connections were made and all looked OK, so tried to start it and the damned fuel pump does not run now  😕 Everything else seems to be OK so now is the problem a faulty fuel pump or a faullty fuel pump relay? Which of the relays under the seat is the one for the fuel pump? There is nothing in the manual to say which one is which. I checked the fuse of course and that was fine, but now I am totally stumped.One of the links posted Bogser (thanks mate) talks about one guy having a faulty fuel pump, so I am hoping it is that, as replacing the engine management system would be $$$ for sure. Not that a replacment fuel pump will be cheap I am sure!!Maybe this is the start of my return to trusty old airheads!I will keep you posted on progress.Cheers,Mike    

My money is on the fuel pump relay.  You should be able to replace it with an after market one for a much better price than the existing

[Grant Freeman]

#11521

Hi Bogser and Phil,Thanks for your replies. To answer your questions Bogser - No, the bike is NZ new in 1999 with a full service history from Bay motorcycles - last serviced at 52,000Kms now with 54,300Kms on the clock. The side stand switch has been removed and the wiring to the switch has also been removed and this was done before I got the bike. On one of the last WOF reports with the bike documentation it mentions "the switch as being damaged but bike still runs".I am a mechanical engineer by trade so yes, mechanical and electrical knowledge are there (I work at Huntly power station :roll:) and the Hall sensors are something that I have been told and like you mention, that break down under temperature, where as my problems so far, seem to be not temperature related, but once I have figured out the fuel pump problem, I may have to do the check on them.Phil - which one of the relays is the fuel pump relay? My bike manual only mentions what the fuses are for, but makes no mention of the fuel pump relay? I hope it is something as simple as the relay, as the pump would be an expensive item for sure.Thanks for your help anyway and I will keep you posted.Cheers,Mike 

[honeybear.2399]

#11522

Hi Bogser and Phil,Phil - which one of the relays is the fuel pump relay? My bike manual only mentions what the fuses are for, but makes no mention of the fuel pump relay? I hope it is something as simple as the relay, as the pump would be an expensive item for sure.Thanks for your help anyway and I will keep you posted.Cheers,Mike 

Mike sorry I can't help you with that one.    What I do know is that you have described the very symptoms that I had with a Ducati that would just cut out, but then start again and run ok for some times months, 3 workshops were unable to fix it till one day it gave up the ghost altogether, that was when they found the relay was at fault. Replaced it with a after market one and it never missed a beat again. Oh please no smart remarks about Ducati's  had it for over 14 years and over 100,000kms. and apart from the relay trouble it never missed a beat.  Regards Phil

[Grant Freeman]

#11523

Thanks Phil. No smart remarks from me about Ducati's. I like them and have considered one – an ST4, but the boxer engine seems to have that nostalgia about them, until of course I bought an oilhead!Maybe I should return to my true origins of motorcycling a James Captian 197cc villiers - now that was a bike or at least I thought so at a mere 15 years old!Mike

[honeybear.2399]

#11524

Thanks Phil. No smart remarks from me about Ducati's. I like them and have considered one - an ST4, but the boxer engine seems to have that nostalgia about them, until of course I bought an oilhead!Maybe I should return to my true origins of motorcycling a James Captian 197cc villiers - now that was a bike or at least I thought so at a mere 15 years old!Mike

At 15 a 125cc BSA Bantam, flat out everywere, top speed 45mph, but oh the freedom. 😎 😎 😎 😎

[Tim BLAKE]

#11525

Re: “Phil – which one of the relays is the fuel pump relay? My bike manual only mentions what the fuses are for, but makes no mention of the fuel pump relay? I hope it is something as simple as the relay, as the pump would be an expensive item for sure.”Looking at the fuse/relay box from the top - on the row on the opposite side from the fuses - the big one on the right is the starter motor relay, the next to the left is the load relief relay, to the left of that the horn relay (then there is a partition) and to the left of that is the fuel pump relay. (next to that the motronic relay then ABS then blank/aux lighting)At least that is how I remember them to be laid outGood luck

[Grant Freeman]

#11526

Thanks 90S, I shall have a look tonight and get some of the C&I instrumentation guys at work to test the relay – here's hoping!Cheers,Mike

[Grant Freeman]

#11527

Hi Guys,What with the pressure of work (six day week currently) and a limitation to my knowledge of electrical things, I gave up with my repairs as I could still not get the fuel pump going and the relay tested all OK, so I took my bike to Hamilton motorcycles, and they found the plug into the ECU was not fitting very well and a number of the pins were oxidised, so they cleaned them and refitted the plug and the fuel pump is OK, but still a fault with cutting out and just as Bogser  🙄 said, the analyser said the hall sensors were at fault, so they took them out and sent them to an auto electrician, who said they were OK, so they reinstalled them and the analyser said that they were at fault, so we are having the board fixed (Jaycar hall sensors) rather than a BMW replacement and hopefully, I can pick the bike up on monday. I might need picking up after they give me the bill, but I am hopeing I will have a reliable motorcycle after that!Thanks Bogser - I owe you one and thanks every one else who contributed. I will let you know how it goes on the test ride!Cheers,Mike

[peter.trub]

#11528

Ensure that they check the loom from the connecter to the plate as the insulation around the wires is also known to cause this fault.Bloody Hall sensors  Only the Germans would do this to us  😀

[phil1]

#11529

i agree with mica…., the senders themselves will test fine, the problems will be in the wiring to the connector

[Grant Freeman]

#11530

Hi NiggleC and Mica,Thanks for that. I will pass the comments on to Hamilton Motorcycles. I was hopeful of picking the bike up today, but the plate is still being repaired, so I will keep my fingers crossed for tomorrow. I am having withdrawal symptoms now from my bike! Can you get counselling for this? 😥Cheers,Mike

[Grant Freeman]

#11531

🙄 I picked my bike up today and the first noticable effects other than a dent in the wallet, was that my bike starts easier – it used to sound as though the battery was going to give up, but now, it springs into life. Second, the tick over is set at the same revs as before, but the bike seems “lumpier” than before and the flywheel effect is more noticable  😕 😕 😕 but it rides well and gear changes are smoother, so the engine has a better balance, so I shall try it and see how it goes, and hopefully, look forward to some reliable riding from now on.Thanks to all that contributed and Bogser for picking those damned hall sensors.Cheers,Mike 

[Author]

Posts