Home Forums General Discussion Getting the most from my bike.

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  • ROBIN MOSS
    Participant
    Post count: 24

    To the BMW IndexMy problem is that I have just got back to serious motor bike riding and consequently will struggle to convince you all of my pet hobby horse. However I’m alarmed at the riders I meet that struggle with or who have no knowledge of riding safely through corners (twisties) correctly.My credentials are in Motor Racing and after 35 years I have moved on to more leisure pursuits. However the dynamics and physics behind cornering are no different between cars and bikes. During my twenties I worked for Bruce McClaren Can-Am, Bruce McClaren was light years ahead of his peers and many a long night was spent discussing the theories behind the forces developed during cornering. I completed an engineering degree and studied on this very subject. The passion is still very active and hence when I see bikers, who! Incidentally believe that they have it worked out are actually struggling I wished I could help.So instead of thinking it “I have decided to test the waters”One of the saddest sights, are those crosses marking fatal accidents that happen around corners and if you look at where they are positioned and have a little knowledge of the entry and exit of a corner, most did not need to happen. It would be so good for every driver, especially the young, be motorbike or car to attend some driver instruction on a racetrack or just driver instruction. Last week I went on two rides through some nice twisty stuff, on one of these rides I stopped at a Tavern for some liquid and joined up with a bunch of Motor Guzzi riders. They told me that my BMW was a Guzzi with flat tits. Nice bike but boring. They were good folk and very keen on the wonderful attributes of cornering through the twisties. A week before this meeting I had meet, at the same tavern another group of riders and decided to hang around and ride home with them, back across the summit road to Christchurch, a good example of twisting hill top road. My flat tited BMEER and I were a little annoyed and so from the start of our ride home I was happy to sit in behind and watch. (Its called age and wisdom) After three good corners I was alarmed to see the very poor basic understanding of riding a corner. Unwittingly every rider was closing down his options should the unexpected happen. For those that read this please don't think I'm encouraging break neck cornering speed, that’s not my intention for a second but if you know what is happening between you and the road and what causes it then there is never a need to say " my bike is just to heavy and it is to much work for twisty roads".By the time we reached the Dyers pass intersection my flat titted R1200RT had successfully manoeuvred its way past the 4 bikes. There was little effort required and at no point was I or oncoming traffic ever in any danger. After the meeting with the Guzzi Riders my partner Zoe suggested that there motors have Erectile Penis Dysfunction. I'm fortunanat to have a beautifull partner who loves to ride and may, I'm hoping purchase here own bike in the not to distance future. Pity BMW dont have a 250cc for Zoe only has a learners license. I stopped at the Lay by hoping that these guys would stop and acknowledge my flat tited BMW!. They all rode on bye. Maybe my grey hairs and 58 years were a little intimidating.My point is that having the knowledge is all that is required, experience comes on the back of doing it correctly, these guys had never been taught and so all they do is encourage there bad habits in the believe that they have it mastered. It was fun talking with them, they obviously loved there bikes and I encourage all those Club members  to take there bikes to a track day, but first find somebody who is trained or has the knowledge and knows how to pass it on. Dave the Yank may be happy to give up some time or have a contact that could help the North Island Guys. Do it on a track, every thing is going the same way and loads of room for run off. Don't get your kicks on the open road, too much can go wrong. You don’t need to ride fast, slow is good, it’s about the techniques and feedback is easier to feel at slow speeds. Please don’t say “I don’t trust myself on a race track, I would hate to crash. Or my bikes to big and heavy for that stuff.Its about feeling the differences that upper body movement makes to cornering, not speed, I promise you that a little instruction will make that bad corner, (I’m sure you all have a corner on your favourite ride that you struggle with) into a breeze and a joy to ride. Have you ever felt your bike want to fall down in a corner and told yourself that my bike is to heavy, or maybe that your bike is better suited for highway stuff. It’s not your bike, It’s your technique. Never mind what size or weight of your bike, would you like to experience the weightless feeling of rolling your bike from one apex to another, understand the science of weight transfer, moving your upper body through each corner so that the bike follows you and not the over way round, knowing that what ever the corner throws at you will be controlled by you and not the bike in a safe and joyful manner.Then go on contact me, we can spend some time on a white board, expand the physics of transferring weight and forces into grip and if enough are interested I can organise some time on the track. (Ruapuna)  Or take you for a ride, you can come as pillion, maybe we can talk through helmet intercom. (Blue Tooth). Who knows?Nothing to loose.Don’t say my bike is more for off road and riding the dirty stuff, the same techniques apply, and as a point of interest the techniques apply to riding a mountain bike, a road bike, BMX, water skiing, snow skiing, Motor Cross and with some understanding Motor Racing and just driving your every day motor vehicle.  Its Simply weight Transfer. RegardsLeigh. I would love to pass on a little knowledge.I'm often in Auckland and would be glad to spend an evening answering questions.

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Post count: 2134

    The most important part of road riding you identified correctly: not closing down your options.My take on this is to use late apexing as my my standard road technique, weight transfer takes care of itself quite adequately if you countersteer. Grip is kept under control by Messrs Metzeler.Late apexing lets me see what's around the corner, and I no longer have those teenage moments of extreme sphinctre suction at the seat fabric. (And I don't miss them, either!)I don't understand the physics very well at all, only studied it to 7th form level, and that a bloody long time ago, but I do understand when I feel comfortable.I'm not very quick, and I'm not very ashamed. I have a long list of people who like to go like the clappers, ride over the centre line in and out of corners, do not late apex, look down their noses at (slow, old, careful, cautious, scared, sooky, useless - pick any combination you like) riders like me, the company of whom I do not miss by avoiding riding with them. And I don't have to scrape them up after their horizontal moments, either.At two weeks to 60 (and a compulsory hi-vis?) I can feel the Grim Reaper catching up with me on his David Brown that he swapped his scythe for, and I intend to evade him for a while yet, so I have no ambition to be the fastest man in the graveyard.Most valuable time I have spent on a bike, ever? Just as you advocate, on a track. Advanced Riding Course facilitated by Mark Waters and a team from Auckland Motorcycle Club, many moons ago, but the good stuff has stayed in the back of the head ever since, and ever since I have aimed to late apex on the road.

    dave.valma
    Participant
    Post count: 86

    Anything that can make riding more pleasureable has to be good.

    Dave Ross
    Keymaster
    Post count: 2310

    understand the science of weight transfer, moving your upper body through each corner so that the bike follows you and not the over way round,

    I've got to say that I have a rough idea about weight transfer and I am pretty glad that my bike didn't follow me 😀KIF_1180.jpgYou can't beat training, but then it's practice and more practice.

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Post count: 2134

    Nearly five months at home housekeeping and caregiving for my wounded wife I have transferred a great deal of weight from the fridge to my puku, and my leathers have shrunk in a dark cupboard.

    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Post count: 305

    I would definitely like to pick your brain sometime, Leigh, and there might be a few others.  However, I'm not sure that all that many folks on BMWs feel the same way. It becomes evident at the track days when there's only two BMWs on the track, and the other one is the day's organiser.  The target demographic may be changing, but slowly.I still respect that the reasons people ride may not be like mine, but at least they ride!! Most motorbike riders feel they have a secret, a feeling, or a knowledge that car drivers don't have (am I right?  You all have that feeling, don't you?).  I think that for those who try to hone their skills, push their limits a little, attend track days, or get some instruction share a bigger knowledge or secret.  The thing is, we try to tell everyone our secret and we get the same response that car drivers give motorcyclists, "Yes, yes, you're obviously insane, I'm quite happy knowing what I know."  All we can do is keep trying!

    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Post count: 305

    Oh yeah, another secret!Leigh (and anyone else in CCH), if you can get to Ruapuna by 9:00am on Saturday 2nd Feb, there will be a special event at the opening of the SKOPE classics.  Something you won't see in NZ very often.Dave

    aegis4805
    Participant
    Post count: 267

    have to stay i'm very interested in your ideas Leigh, Dave and Bwucie – might have to look seriously at doing a track day at Taupo some day (when I'm not running TCK80's on my 1150). I did a couple of track days with Stay Upright almost a decade ago at Manfield on an R100GS I had then – learned some things and had fun. Leigh - I'm sure my wife and I would be willing to host you if you were coming through Wellington sometime and perhaps that way Register members from Wellington and Rangatiki could get to meet you / gain some of your wisdom.Cheers Stephen O aka Aslan  :mrgreen:

    Anonymous
    Inactive
    Post count: 84

    “track days”…what are they, how do we get to know what/where/when/who? –  😕

    Murray
    Participant
    Post count: 487

    "track days"...what are they, how do we get to know what/where/when/who? -  😕

    MotoTT holds regular track days at the Taupo international race track, take a squize at http://www.motott.co.nz for an event schedule. Also, Kiwirider mag has a good list of upcoming track days in the events section and if you take a peek at http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz there's always something being organised by someone, somehwere. Failing that, your local bike shop should have a few clues as to what's on.

    Dave Ross
    Keymaster
    Post count: 2310

    I am waiting for Hampton Downs to come online.  However, I may give Pukekohe a go at the next opportunity. My TKC80 are due for replacement, so that may work out well :-).http://www.hamptondowns.com/

    ROBIN MOSS
    Participant
    Post count: 24

    understand the science of weight transfer, moving your upper body through each corner so that the bike follows you and not the over way round,

    I've got to say that I have a rough idea about weight transfer and I am pretty glad that my bike didn't follow me 😀KIF_1180.jpgYou can't beat training, but then it's practice and more practice.

    AlexI understand this happened on the way to Alexander, BUGGER. Unfortunatly I was in Perth and so could not make it. I would have loved to meet you all. My family comes from Alexander and so I had good reason to attend, never mind another day. How bad is or was the damage. I think I have this quote attaching bit a little mixed up, need more practice???????????CheersLeigh.

    ROBIN MOSS
    Participant
    Post count: 24

    Oh yeah, another secret!Leigh (and anyone else in CCH), if you can get to Ruapuna by 9:00am on Saturday 2nd Feb, there will be a special event at the opening of the SKOPE classics.  Something you won't see in NZ very often.Dave

    Hi Dave.I'm working at the Skope Classic, part of my Canterbury Car Club role but what is the little secret you mention or are you going to leave me in the Dark.Look forward to meeting up, hopefully in the not to distant future. CheersLeigh.

    ROBIN MOSS
    Participant
    Post count: 24

    Nearly five months at home housekeeping and caregiving for my wounded wife I have transferred a great deal of weight from the fridge to my puku, and my leathers have shrunk in a dark cupboard.

    Hi Bwucie.I trust your wife is okay, and all that weight transfer will be worth it. Your comment of using the late apexing so that you can see around the corner is a good one. In fact it is the best way to find the ideal line through the corner, used as the first part of instruction. On the open road, a little easier or less intimidating on right hand corners than left. But can I suggest you drop the "late Apexing" thing. Many corners have two Apex's and occassionally three.Today the move is towards understanding how to find the Apex, often, and you will generally find that corners come in a succession of left then right or visa versa and this requires a smooth line that requires the vehicle (bike) to be balanced or settled before turn in.As you said it is about keeping your options open and at the end of the day not about speed but enjoying the ride.Stay in touch and maybe one day we can compare PUKU'S.RegardsLeigh.

    ROBIN MOSS
    Participant
    Post count: 24

    have to stay i'm very interested in your ideas Leigh, Dave and Bwucie - might have to look seriously at doing a track day at Taupo some day (when I'm not running TCK80's on my 1150). I did a couple of track days with Stay Upright almost a decade ago at Manfield on an R100GS I had then - learned some things and had fun. Leigh - I'm sure my wife and I would be willing to host you if you were coming through Wellington sometime and perhaps that way Register members from Wellington and Rangatiki could get to meet you / gain some of your wisdom.Cheers Stephen O aka Aslan  :mrgreen:

    Hi Stephen.That is very kind, and would love to take up your offer, I may well be in Wellington for work in the not to distace future and so will let you know when it happens.Keep in touch.CheersLeigh.

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