If you look at the problems Suzuki are having with quality control on their Chinese made product you have to wonder about the BMW.check out the photo's - the GN250's of the last few years seem to have a rust problem and corrosion problem. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Tourers/auction-164852867.htmCheck out the headlight and tail lighthttp://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=159519520Mind you having said that I was talking with a friend who has a Suzuki Bandit, 2 years old. And so far his list of bike failures is nil. Nothing's failed, no recalls, just services. (and he's done more km's than me)

I've never known Suzuki's to have an affinity to rust. There just seems to be a recent quality control issue.I guess the lesson is that you need to control quality or risk alienating customers. BMW can't afford to get this wrong with them already being compared to Microsoft in terms of product. I hope they can produce a good quality product. Perhaps they can use some of the increased profits to produce more better quality bikes.

The reference in the third paragraph to quality is in relation to product built in China. The stuff is getting better but it seems that even when manufacturing for major brand names that quality control is still an issue. And hence, hopefully, BMW can manage that process. I'm not sure that I'm digging a hole here but as a BMW owner I'd love to see increased profits put into improving bikes and I guess shareholders want to see increased profits being paid out to them.I think BMW Germany can certainly lift their game in terms of fixing faults, communicating with customers and their dealers.  For me, BMW NZ have been very supportive, replaced almost everything that has not worked or failed, provided loan bikes etc. I've had a bike die on the Northern Motorway after midnight, waited an hour for a taxi, had to find another way to get to work as well as the trips back and forths to the dealers. I think I've been fairly patient and very understanding. And like I said BMW have dealt to pretty much everything.There are only a couple of things that need to be dealt with now. Parts are on order for one. The second item is still being worked through from my point of view and I need to try and communicate more clearly to BMW my concerns about what I consider to be a fault. From BMW's point of view they had not in the past been able to create the problem and today advised me that it is normal operation according to a response from Germany. In this circumstance as a consumer, I find that I don't agree with that view so I will try and communciate the issue to BMW again. The problem is being experienced worldwide and it may be time to collect data internationally to show BMW that there is an issue that many of their customers consider a problem. Hopefully we can get this sorted. It's been some 20,000km's since I first raised the issue and because of its intermittent nature its been hard to sort. Although Germany do now acknowledge it as happening but that it is normal operation. I'm hopeful that we'll make progress on it though. Other than that I love my bike. I think it has a lot going for it. So a big plus to the local guys in dealing with the faults and providing loan bikes and to BMW Germany, I think you can improve communication both up and down regarding faults and pay more attention when testing of bikes before release to the public. IMHO.

The F800 has a pretty substantial list of the things that happen. I've had some and not others. And then there are some that don't really bother me.http://www.f800riders.org is a useful site for F800S&T, F800GS, F650GS and it looks like the 450 as well.There have been a fair few mods which you can pick up on the forum. For me it's been,- seized clutch - new clutch assembly and housing, drive bearing also not 100% and replaced. They have now created a new clutch housing and assembly that doesn't seize. At least I have the new gearbox.- new R/hand heated grip- new front rotor and judging by the feel of the front brakes at the moment I'm due for another set. So that would make them consumables.- new front pulley- new left hand mirror (they vibrate loose and flop around) I'm due for my second one now and apparently they have a new part number so hopefully that's fixed.- numerous software updates, to deal with the engine cutting out, rough running etc.I keep thinking I've missed somethings but...The only item outstanding other than the new mirror coming is the ABS failure problem. And when the bike goes in I'll get them to check the rotors but I'm guessing they're out of tolerance now.For the ABS failure problem see the new thread.

I am pretty comfortable without ABS. There are no suprises, I know it's not going to come on and adjust my riding accordingly. The ABS on Gerda's bike seems to work fine. While I think that ABS is a great idea, it will only be helpful if you can fully trust that it is going to work as intended. If it doesn't, grabbing a handful of brakes could have been the wrong decision.  I'd hate to have that doubt in the back of my mind.I certainly hope you'll be able to have it sorted for you.

Once you have had ABS you will never go back to standard brakes on road riding.

Possibly right, but you did just that when you bought the Hp2. How many riders of non ABS bikes do you hear complaining about their brakes. I know that my brakes perform as advertised, therefore I trust them.  No doubt ABS is excellent, but only if they can achieve the same reliability as with standard brakes. Boiling brakes usually means that there is water in the system. You do need to change the fluid occasionally to avoid this.

Am surised at the lack of protest to chinese BMWs. It appears value for money is no longer of interest.As Jeremy Clarkson would say, some people will buy a dead cat for as long it has got a BMW badge on it.Bet Steve B. wont get one.